groovy_djsunny

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    • Name: Sunny
    • Country: India
    • Metro: Dilli
    • Birthday: 9/1/1971
    • Gender: Male
    • Member Since: 8/2/2007

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Saturday, 12 September 2009

  • The trial of Pastor Jones

    This following article was forwarded to me by a dear brother in the Lord. Some of you may have read this on some Christian websites. 

    The trial of Pastor Jones

    Judge: Mr. Jones you have been charged with multiple counts of extortion. Your crime spree covers 20 years and thousands of victims. You have defrauded people out of their money with fear and manipulation, telling them they had to tithe 10% of their income to your church and that God would bless them if they did. You also told them that if they didn't tithe God would curse them. How do you plead?

    Mr. Jones: I plead not guilty your Honor, I have done nothing wrong. I have only preached what the Bible says. In the Bible Abraham tithed to Melchizedek and God blessed him for his faithful giving. The Bible even says he was rich in silver and gold.

    Judge: Is it not true, Mr. Jones, that in Genesis chapter 13 verse 2 the Bible says Abraham was rich with livestock, silver and gold?

    Mr. Jones: Yes, you are exactly right, that's what I just told you.

    Judge: Ok, we read about Abraham being a rich man in chapter 13 but it is not until Genesis chapter 14 that we read about Abraham's tithe to Melchizedek. So Abraham was already a rich man before he tithed to Melchizedek, wasn't he?

    Mr. Jones: Yes, I suppose you are right.

    Judge: So his riches were not the result of his tithe to Melchizedek?

    Mr. Jones: No.

    Judge: Mr. Jones, you also say God blessed him for his faithful giving. How many times is it recorded that Abraham gave tithes to Melchizedek?

    Mr. Jones: Well, just once.

    Judge: So the Bible never said that he gave week after week?

    Mr. Jones: No it does not.

    Judge: Where did Abraham get the things that he gave to Melchizedek?

    Mr. Jones: Well the Bible says it was from the plunders of war?

    Judge: So you are telling me that he gave from the plunders of war?

    Mr. Jones: Yes that's what the Bible says.

    Judge: So he basically took things that were not really his in the first place and gave them as the tithe?

    Mr. Jones: That is what the scripture seems to indicate.

    Judge: Is it recorded that he ever took anything from his own possessions
    and tithed them to Melchizedek or anyone else?

    Mr. Jones: I guess not

    Judge: You guess not, you are a Pastor and you are only guessing, is it or is it not written that he ever gave any of his own possessions as a tithe to
    anyone?

    Mr. Jones: No it is not written anywhere that I have seen.

    Judge: Is it recorded as to what exactly Abraham did give Melchizedek?

    Mr. Jones: I believe it says plunder?

    Judge: So plunder could be any number of things?

    Mr. Jones: Yes, I suppose

    Judge: It could have been food, cattle, sheep, the people's possessions or any number of things. It does not say it was all money correct?

    Mr. Jones: Yes you are correct; it does not say just money

    Judge: As a matter of fact money is never mentioned in that account at all
    is that correct Mr. Jones?

    Mr. Jones: Yes your Honor, money is never mentioned just goods and food and people.

    Judge: So there is no way you can say with any certainty that Abraham in fact gave Melchizedek any money at all?

    Mr. Jones: That is right.

    Judge: I only have one last question for you Mr. Jones; did God command Abraham to give this plunder tithe to Melchizedek?

    Mr. Jones: No, it appears that he did this voluntarily.

    Judge: So are you trying to tell me that because of this voluntary, one time gift by Abraham, that may not have even consisted of money, all Christians everywhere are obligated to bring 10% of their weekly paycheck to a local church?

    Judge: Considering all the evidence I would say you are beyond any shadow of a doubt guilty of deliberately trying to make the scriptures says things they have not said for financial gain.

    Mr. Jones: Ok your Honor, I can see how foolish I was to try and use the story of Melchizedek to try and get the people to tithe money. But there are many other verses that will support my belief on tithing. Jacob said he would give God 10% of everything. I think we should follow his example.

    Judge: Let's see what Jacob said. Please read the verse you are talking about for me Mr. Jones.

    Mr. Jones: In Genesis chapter 28 starting at verse 20 it says. Jacob vowed a vow, saying, "If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and clothing to put on, so that I come again to my father's house in peace, and Yahweh will be my God, then this stone, which I have set up for a pillar, will be God's house. Of all that you will give me I will surely give the tenth to you."

    Judge: You said we should follow Jacobs's example, is that right Mr. Jones?

    Mr. Jones: Yes that is right, he vowed to give a tenth and we should too.

    Judge: Let me point out one thing for you Mr. Jones, Jacob said he would Give God a tenth, ONLY if He blessed him first. So as you said previously, we should follow Jacob's example and tell God that we will only give him a tenth if he blesses us first. Is that right?

    Mr. Jones: That is not what I meant.

    Judge: What did you mean then?

    Mr. Jones: That we should give God a tenth also.

    Judge: There you go again, trying to make the scripture say what you want it to say for your benefit. I would also like you to tell me the scriptures that say that Jacob kept his vow with God. I would also like to know where he gave the tenth to because there was no temple or Levites to give it to at that time.

    Mr. Jones: I can not think of any scriptures that say where or if he ever tithed after his vow.

    Judge: It seems fairly obvious to me that Jacob made a voluntary and conditional vow to God. This in no way can be used as a reason to demand others to bring their income to you or any other place.

    Mr. Jones: I do have a few more scriptures that I believe will show that we are supposed to tithe.

    Judge: You have not said anything yet to convince me one little bit that people are obligated to tithe money to the local churches and that you were justified in what you were doing. You have taken scripture and misapplied it to your beliefs and for your gain. But in order to be fair to you I will allow you to present more evidence.

    Mr. Jones: In the book of Malachi chapter 3, verse 8-10, it says, “Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, in what have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. Bring ye all the tithes into the store-house, that there may be food in my house, and prove me now with this, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.”

    So you see your Honor, we are commanded to bring the tithes into the storehouse or God will curse us.

    Judge: Answer me this Mr. Jones; were you aware that God never required anyone to tithe money?

    Mr. Jones: No I didn't know that.

    Judge: The tithe spoken of here was always edible products never money.

    Mr. Jones: well your Honor that is because they didn't have money at the time so God had them tithe food instead.

    Judge: Not true, money is first mentioned in Genesis and Malachi was written hundreds of years later. God had them bring food in so that the Levites, the fatherless and widows may eat and be satisfied. The tithe was used mainly to take care of people. Also notice it says in the verse you quoted, that there may be food in my house. How do you completely overlook the word food in those verses?

    Mr. Jones: I don't know

    Judge: I also want you to know that these verses speak to people under the Old Testament law. As you may or may not know Jesus fulfilled the law, it is no longer binding. Tithing was part of that law that has been abolished.

    Judge: Once again you have tried to completely take a scripture out of context and apply it to others for your benefit. Can you give me a single scripture where God changed the tithe from food to money?

    Mr. Jones: I do not know of any.

    Judge: So if God never changed it from food to money who did?

    Mr. Jones: Man must have.

    Judge: So far all you have done Mr. Jones is take Old Testament scriptures out of context and try to apply it to believers under the New Covenant. Is this all the proof you have?

    Mr. Jones: I do have a New Testament scripture that will show that Jesus told us to tithe.

    Judge: Ok let me hear it.

    Mr. Jones: Jesus said in Matthew 23:23 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint, dill, and cumin, and have left undone the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faith. But you ought to have done these, and not to have left the other undone. See Jesus said we should be tithing.

    Judge: Let me ask you a question, who was Jesus talking to?

    Mr. Jones: The scripture says the scribes and Pharisees.

    Judge: Are you a scribe or Pharisee?

    Mr. Jones: Of course not.

    Judge: Jesus also said in that passage, you have left undone the weightier matters of the law. Are we under the law Mr. Jones?

    Mr. Jones: No.

    Judge: Why not?

    Mr. Jones: Because Jesus fulfilled it.

    Judge: When did Jesus fulfill the law?

    Mr. Jones: When He was crucified.

    Judge: So the law was still in effect until Jesus death?

    Mr. Jones: That is correct.

    Judge: I think you know where I am going with this don't you?

    Mr. Jones: Yes your Honor. Since Jesus had not yet been crucified and the law was still binding the Pharisees were required to tithe because it was part of the law. Once the law ended, tithing ended also.

    Judge: I want you to take a look at that verse again. Also tell me, what were they tithing?

    Mr. Jones: The scripture says it was mint, dill and cumin.

    Judge: Is money mentioned?

    Mr. Jones: No it was not.

    Judge: Once again it was edible products that they were tithing, not money. Do you have anything else you would like to say?

    Mr. Jones: If people only tithed edible products like the scripture says, then how would the church survive? We have our mortgage payment, utility bills, my salary and a host of other things that we have to pay each week. We depend on the money from the people.

    Judge: The need does not justify the means. In other words, just because you have all these debts does not give you the right to twist and manipulate scripture and cause people to give under fear of being cursed by God to meet your needs. In closing, let me recap a few things for you Mr. Jones.

    The tithe was never money; the tithe was an Old Testament law, which is no longer binding. When it was binding the tithe was used to take care of people, not buildings. We are under a new covenant now. Paul instructs the Corinthian believers how they are to give. He says in second Corinthians chapter 9 verse 7, Let each man give according as he has determined in his heart; not grudgingly, or under compulsion; for God loves a cheerful giver.

    So each believer is supposed to give as he or she has determined in his or her heart. If you are trying to make people give under the threat of being cursed or any other reason you are wrong. Someone can not give cheerfully if they are being forced to give. If your church can not survive on freewill offerings maybe God is not part of your church at all.

    Mr. Jones: I never realized all these things, I have always been taught that we had to tithe money to the local church and that is what I have always taught. I can see now that I was completely wrong. I did not study the scripture for myself, I only took mans word for it. Yes I am guilty. I will not teach this error anymore. I plead guilty, your honor.

    Judge: Mr. Jones, I can see that you done this in ignorance and are repentant, this court will not hold you accountable. It is your responsibility to know the truth. I would advise you and everyone else in this courtroom to really start studying the Bible and seeking God on the subject of tithing and your eyes will be open. Do not just take man’s word any longer. Start seeking God as to how and where He would have you give. Court adjourned.

     

     

     

Friday, 21 August 2009

  • I am bothered...and concerned.

     

    Bible encourages us to love and not criticize each other. So why can’t Pastors and Church leaders follow this? Why can’t they lead by example? Yes, they are humans too and bound to make mistakes, but they shouldn’t forget that people look up to them. Many leaders who started with fire in their bellies have fallen prey to commercialization. This commercialization is rampant in their Churches and congregations.

     

    Hypocrisy is the bane of modern Church. Leaders do not practice what they preach. I don’t know how it’s in the US and rest of the world but here the scene is not so encouraging. Every leader seems to put the other down. No Pastor can see another Pastor being praised, another ministry being glorified. Everyone feels they are the final authority on God’s Word, and rest all are fools. Also every other Christian minister dreams of foreign funds, and manipulations in Church reports sent to foreign funding missions is an open secret.

     

    Instead of glorifying Christ, Pastors & leaders wish to glorify themselves. Oh come on now! Just saying all glory to Jesus, glory to God is useless unless you really mean it from the heart. The utterances of mouth have to be justified by actions also. Unfortunately it doesn’t always happen that way.

     

    So what causes Pastors and Church leaders to turn commercial in the middle of their journey to His kingdom? Let’s look at a few possible causes:

     

    1)     Their own needs and personal goals start taking precedence over God’s work.

     

    2)     They feel they are justified to commercial gains, since they invest so much time and money in God’s work.

     

    3)     Their own frustrations, their own struggles hamper their walk with God, and the same starts reflecting in their ministry work.

     

    4)     They feel since they are devoting so much time for their congregation, they are obligated to people’s money.

     

    5)     They get tired (after some time) of doing God’s work, especially if they do not see big rewards heading their way. They don’t expect but demand Jesus to bless them, “I am doing your work God, am I not? So You better bless me!! “

     

    6)     The expansion of Churches gives them little time to spend time in personal prayer. They get too busy in Church activities, Church events to spend personal time with the Master. In spite of themselves they can’t devote much time to prayers, this becomes responsible for spiritual decline, “ God, I’m doing so much work for You, surely you understand and will excuse me if I don’t pray much….huh? “

     

    7)     Many Pastors close the doors for further learnings and knowledge after some time. They feel they have nothing new to learn.

     

    8)     They are happy to preach inside fours walls of their Church (building) and do not really wish to reach out to people on streets.

     

     

    These are just some of the reasons. The same is true for believers too. After all, not only Pastors and Church leaders but each one of us is called out to preach the Gospel. Well I know it’s not proper to judge but when all this is hampering God’s work in my country, I am bothered...and concerned. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

Wednesday, 17 June 2009

  • Samir and Tina

     

    This is a real life incident.

     

    A young man (Samir) accepts the Lord. A week later he comes across a Christian girl (Tina). Soon their friendship develops into a close relationship. Samir thinks that this relationship is from God. Because as soon as he accepted Jesus, this girl Tina, a Christian by birth, comes in his life.

     

    After meeting Tina, Samir starts to enjoy life, and starts fulfilling the lusts of flesh, including drinking alcohol, earlier he never drank. He gets intimate with Tina.

     

    Samir and his family start growing in Lord. One day Samir reads about the sin of adultery (& fornication) in Bible. He feels guilty and decides to refrain from further intimacy with Tina.

    Tina is not happy about this decision but she decides to carry on. Samir says since Bible forbids such intimacy before marriage, so they should stop.

     

    Tina replies that the flesh has its own desires, which have to be fulfilled. Moreover she says on Sunday we go to Church and confess our sins and period, we start afresh. She says that’s what Sunday confessions are for. This theory takes roots in Samir’s mind. Slowly he is back to his old ways again, now being assured that after any wrong, just go and confess on a Sunday, and go guilt free. Samir also comes to know of Tina’s past relations with some guys, Tina herself would boast about them to him.

     

    Samir’s family is growing afresh in Lord. He finds his passion for Lord missing from Tina’s life, who tends to take Jesus for granted. One day Samir comes to know of certain illnesses in Tina’s family. He says “Well, just say healing prayers in name of Jesus”. To which Tina replies, “Oh, that’s ok, but we believe medicines have to be taken, we don’t believe much in healing prayers. ” Samir is taken aback but he doesn’t say much. He tells Tina that she has to have more faith in healing power of Jesus, but she dismisses his ideas, giving him the impression that since she is Christian by birth she knows more.   

     

    One day Samir comes to know that Tina’s dad, a Christian, doesn’t mind taking food offered to idols etc, since all religions have to be respected. This comes as a shock to Samir, because acc to Bible, this is forbidden.

     

    Bible also forbids abortion but Tina’s Dad works in a firm that promotes abortions. This sets him thinking again.

     

    Samir thinks all Christians model their lives according to Jesus and Bible, so when he meets corrupt and dishonest Christian leaders, he receives another shock.

     

    Samir looks forward to Christian festivals like Easter & Christmas. He often visits Tina’s family during such occasions. Over a period of time he realizes that all these are mere rituals to this family. They feel salvation belongs only to them since they are born Christians.  

     

    Tina also believes a lot in astrology and sun signs etc. Samir is really confused by now by this display of Christianity, because acc to him, Bible forbids all this. He is equally perplexed by the amount of lies Christians speak. Not that he is a saint, but he expects all Christians to try and emulate Jesus. 

     

    By this time Samir is knee deep in his relationship with Tina. Satan has got a good grip on his life.

     

    Finally after much storms, his relationship with Tina comes to an end.

     

    If at all, should anyone be blamed for what happened?

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

Tuesday, 26 May 2009

  • Why are Christian Pastors such an insecure lot?

    Take this for instance....

    Some new Punjabi believers attend prayer meetings at some places. This hasn’t gone down too well with the Pastor and his team. Though nothing much has been said about this but people ( new believers) are quick to discern these things. Then these new believers start questioning us “why so much insecurity?”, what difference does it make if we attend any other prayer meeting or go somewhere else for fellowship?” Isn’t Jesus Christ the same everywhere? Why divide Jesus by saying things like "My ministry is different etc?"

     

    Such attitudes hurt new believers and can turn them away from Christ. Because they never hear these things in their places of worship. They come from a background that lays emphasis on One God, irrespective of the place of worship. Again the role of culture can't be ruled out. These are very delicate matters, esp with new believers. They have to be nurtured with care.

     

    We have gone through all this over the years and can relate to what these new believers are saying. We tell people they must not rely on us or anyone else for prayers everytime. They must learn to pray for themselves, and meditate more on Word of God. This is the only way they will grow spiritually. The focus should be more on raising people for Christ than winning over congregations.

     

    Seasoned Pastors make it seem a sin to attend some other fellowship. People growing in the Lord get a bit confused by this attitude. Well, sometimes Pastors may do it for purely doctrinal purposes, but there is more to it. Something called T i t h e. Hush…

     

    Its sad to see Pastors desperately struggling to hold their congregation together, just for the sake of tithes. Burden for souls or burden for money? May be both. There we go again!

     

    (Sorry for sounding judgemental)

     

    Blessings to all.

     

     

     

     

Sunday, 17 May 2009

  • Praise report

    Its always a joy to the spirit when praise reports pour in.

    Of recent a Sardarji gentleman, who was jobless for many months, got a job the very next day we prayed for him. He has grown up children who are in college and as such his need was great.

    On Thursday he came with his wife for our home fellowship and some people, including us, prayed for him. Next day on Friday afternoon, he got a call from two perspective employers. He actually got a chance to choose a better offer! And whatsmore his employer is quite impressed with his skills ( he is an electronics engineer) and has given orders to construct a special cabin for him! Praise God. This gentleman's  (Mr Singh) joy knew no bounds!  

    Today in Sunday worship there were only 4 of us. This Sardarji gentleman came and he was so happy, and relieved. He has already started reading Bible ( N Testament) and i pray to God that Holy Spirit works in his heart, and he and his family grow in the Lord. He said some 20 years ago he had started coming in the Lord when he was deeply hurt by attitude of his spiritual  Christian leaders (whom he looked up to) and went back on his faith. Our prayers are with him and his family, and we pray that may God meet all their needs, and gives them answer for other prayer issues also, as they keep on seeking Him.

    Praise reports also poured in from another Punjabi family whom mom prays for regularly (well i also pray but she is more regular, phone prayer ministry of hers!) . God met all the needs of their married daughter in a miraculous way and she is happily testifying to all. She gave a testimony on phone today to my mom. She and her parents follow Jesus just like a child, without trying to be too wise, and it is this childlike faith of theirs, that is being rewarded by God. (People who try to use too much wisdom and reasoning often meet many stumbling blocks, in their walk with Christ)

    "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise and the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate. Where is the wise man, where is the scholar, where is the philosopher of this age?" "Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world, for since in the wisdom of God, the world through its wisdom did not know Him, God was pleased with the foolishness of what was proclaimed to save those who believe. 

    I pray that may God keep on answering prayers of people , and with each passing day, may these people keep on drawing closer to Him. Amen.

    Please keep us in your prayers.

    God bless you!

     

groovy_djsunny

  • Visit groovy_djsunny's Xanga Site
    • Name: Sunny
    • Country: India
    • Metro: Dilli
    • Birthday: 9/1/1971
    • Gender: Male
    • Member Since: 8/2/2007

About Me

  • A born again Punjabi believer... Love Jesus. Love God. I exist to glorify Him. To read our testimony, please go to: http://www.gloryofhiscross.org/testimony7.htm http://www.southasianconnection.com/articles/65/1/Raised-From-The-Dead Just Ask Jesus - Part 2 of our testimony. You can check it at foll link : http://www.southasianconnection.com/articles/165/1/Just-Ask-Jesus/Page1.html To Jesus and only Jesus be given all the glory!

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Chatboard (5)

  • groovy_djsunny
    @ajaysherring - Thanks for the encouraging words Ajay! Of course i remember you! Please keep me in prayers, that God gives me more breakthroughs to work for His kingdom. God bless you and your loved ones. amen. In His love sunny
  • ajaysherring
    Hi bro! I hope you remember me. We'd met way back in early-2008 for an interview. I've been visiting your web-blog for well over 1-year now after you gave me your web-blog site address. Its been a blessing reading the stuff that you have shared. I am very impressed with the fact that you and your fa
  • ServentOfGod19
    dude what is up to long of no talk lol .......just wanted to see how you were doing rock the world for jesus nicole
  • rodsgurl
    how do you get the add for blogg stuff on your site i want that code thanks sunny.
  • ServentOfGod19
    so what is up how are you?